2P Start: The Rise and Fall of a Gamin Webcomic
by Professional Mole
In our latest feature, someone suggested me to review a comic with actual beginning, middle and end. Of the two options, 8-Bit Theater and 2P Start, I picked the latter, because the former is incredibly huge. I ended up reading 2P Start from beginning to end and in one night. It was… interesting.
Let’s leave this shit clear right from start: 2P Start is a very, very standard gaming comic. It’s a straight case of “2 Gamers on a Couch” and it makes a lot of the same jokes we’ve all seen before about the same topics. It’s not anything special, except for this little detail: it ends. And not in a sudden fashion like Shredded Moose did, but with an actual closing story. Now, there’s actually one strip of the “post-mortem” kind, and more seem to follow… but I don’t care about that. As it is, 2P Start officially ended. So, let’s start to make this happen.
The art is vectorial and, for some odd reason I can’t really define, I just can’t stand it. It must be because, while the art evolves during the run of the strip, it remains the same sort of amateurish style in which every line has the same weight and everything seems over-outlined. It’s not outright horrible, but it’s that sort of bad that is almost good, and that hurts even more. In some cases, the lines get very obvious, and every shading is either a gradient or a solid shadow. The art gets a little boost in some individual comics near the end but, in general, that’s it.
I know turtles have beaks, but this is ridiculous!
The characters are… basic. There’s Ray, the artist and the geekiest nerd, and there’s Tim, who’s sort of a jock but also a nerd, so I guess he’s just the other guy. They both develop incredibly poorly through the comic’s run, having a huge spike of development in the last 5 strips. The only few important traits I seem to remember about them is that Tim exploits Ray, Tim is married and has a daughter halfway through the story, and Ray marries a sonic fangirl in a quick unimportant joke that turns out to be an important plot point. Oh, sorry, that was a spoiler.
Nope. Not kidding. That really happens.
So, what I mean is: these characters are very underdeveloped. There’s never that feeling that the comic’s writing fit the characters, because the characters themselves are incredibly vague. Up to here, it’s just yet another gaming comic(do not confuse it with Yet Another Fantasy Gamer Comic, though).
For the writing, I’ll go with more caution. I’ll divide this in 4 periods I think were relevant. Let’s start with…
The Beginning
Here’s where everything starts. And I’m not amused.
Here we have the basic two-gamers dynamic: one of them is the dorky one and the other is the straight guy. You saw it before, you know you did. Then things get murky no more than 5 strips through, when Ray accidentally gives Tim his credit card number and they are mean to each other. I wondered whether this would evolve into any coherent plot, but then there was a comic about Chris Hecker and I was lost. What I mean is: there’s no real character here, just individual strips and two almost interchangeable guys.
Here also starts a semi-tradition that’ll actually only be recalled near the end of the strip: Tim’s Take. It’s essentially an excuse for poorly written and poorly drawn strips. Again, it’s a blessing that there are only 4 of those, because they’re easily the worst of the lot.
What we have here is a juvenile gaming comic: obvious game references, pointing out obvious details and jokes that, at times, don’t even make sense. Let’s walk past this at once!
The Middle
Here the comic reaches… a halt. The quality doesn’t really improve here, except, a little bit, on the art. The jokes now follow the usual templates of “let’s put game characters in unusual situations” or “let’s compare the premises of games that aren’t even related at all”. Absurd and pointless assumptions are made about characters and game mechanics that one may wonder if even needed to be made(hint: no, they didn’t), they repeat the same joke again and again in the hopes that it will actually catch on… and occasionally there’s a comic that resembles a huge chatlog. Urk.
I already have a hard time enjoying this when Homestuck does it...
In this period the comic receives an explicit upgrade in the art department, and it’s this comic that shows me that, at the very least, Ray seems to know something about vectoring. As much as I criticize the amateurish style of this, I doubt I’d do much better, since I reckon I can’t really work with vectors for drawing what I think is much more agile to do with a free hand. But I’ll take the opportunity to point this out: thick lines on characters that are supposed to be smoothly 3D just doesn’t work well. Really.
It looks like he just traced over the creature... which I'm wishing to believe he didn't!
Oh, and here’s when Ray marries that girl I mentioned earlier. Oddly, there’s a callback to a character who, just a few dozen strips before, was considered one of the worse things to happen in Sonic Unleashed. Go figure.
STILL NOT KIDDING, FOLKS!
The Near-End
Here things started to get interesting. No, really.
There’s some playing with the format of the comic, some interesting takes on alternative styles to match the mood of the parody, some slight art upgrading… but all in all, this was a good-ish run. Some tired jokes here, some better jokes there, and my favorite comic is definitely this one here…
And here we approach the end with this comic about Pokemon Black/White. There’s a throwaway line in the author’s comments about Ray going to Japan(and this is a time as good as any other to say that the author’s comments of these comics are actually very helpful!) and, what seems to be a stand-alone joke is actually a tie-in to the end of the comic.
Here comes, people…
The Actual Ending
The ending happens in 5 comics and I think it is actually good for an ending. It follows a storyline that’s a bit like this:
Tim arrives in the very blurred “Google Image Search Airport” in… I have no idea, but I suspect it’s Japan, looking for Ray, who disappeared without leaving any traces after Tim’s interest for the comic started to lower quickly with having a family and whatnot. After some expensive searching and some references to some older comics, he then finds Ray apparently crazy like there’s no tomorrow and mumbling something about Miley… you know, like in Miles “Tails” Prower, of Sonic fame? Yep, this is a reference to that girl he married and we all thought it was just a joke. Nope, it seems it was real and she dumped him because he was not a webcomic artist anymore… wow, really? I’d think the opposite would happen, but what a surprise!
Pictured above: NOT a cheap and unbeliavable development that comes out of nowhere only to create gratuitous drama, no sir!
Back on track, he walks the world to find the RIGHT Miley and, I kid you not, he turns his eyes to Miley Cyrus… wait, wasn’t she underage at the time of this comic’s publishing? Dang! But he fails hard and starts playing Sonic games non-stop and, since they all suck so hard, he starts designing his own Sonic game, which is supposed to be perfect. And by now I suppose you’re wondering what the heck did I see that was good as an ending, but please be patient…
Obviously, we never get to know what the heck this perfected version of Sonic is supposed to be like. Instead, we have a long montage of snippets of older 2P Start strips superimposed with the sketches that they were made from which I think is actually very awesome. This is followed by a mellow speech about moving on and a short photo-comic ending starring the real Ray.
I focus all my liking on this ending. The whole mini-arc was stupid(what with the shoddy backgrounds, sob-sob sad story of Ray and stupid “perfect Sonic game” shit), but the last strip(minus the two or so first panels) was very fitting for the ending of this comic. It serves both as a “best moments” recap for the regular followers and a nice “we’re closed” display for any new readers who arrive(or it would, if the comic was displayed on the front page… pity). It was sweet and avoided ruining the moment with a sudden out-of-nowhere joke. Nope, it’s just that: an ending. And a good ending at that.
Also, it reminds me of the ending of Hackles. But that’s neither here nor there.
Post-Mortem
…and wait, what’s that? There’s more strips! Or, rather, one more strip.
This only strip(as of now, that is) comes with a promise: no schedule, no fixed style(thank goodness, I was tired of that style way before the half of the comic’s run) and no real compromise. I think these are all vital ingredients for a good comic but, then again, if you look at the dates, the first post-mortem comic itself was released six months after the ending of the main comic, and that was in November. I don’t think this should even count, for review purposes.
Let’s get done with this! As I mentioned before, 2P Start’s only remarkable aspect is that it ended properly, which is very rare for a webcomic in general, and even more so for a gaming webcomic. Usually, those which aren’t condemned to walk the Earth for decades without even an inkling of a preview of an ending tend to disappear suddenly due to sheer boredom of the artist, without any sort of planning of closure. But 2P Start was different. And, for its only remarkable aspect, it was actually very good in ending.
Be warned, thus: this is not an awesome comic. It barely manages to be a good comic(if I had to describe it in one sentence, it’d be “Dueling Analogs, but with class”), and I’m afraid I’d not recommend it as an obligatory reading for every webcomic lover. It was a typical gaming webcomic, and now it has ended. And this review ends here, too.
34 comments
Also not to be confused with http://www.digitalpimponline.com/strips.php?title=avw
A link to sluggy freelance – the best thing I have found in this review
I wonder what his state of mind was when he decided to do that end.
8-bit theater never really seemed like it was ending either.
8-bit Theater always felt like it was going to end eventually (mostly because it was based on finite story and the author said so), but I guess the fact that it came off as “gag-a-day with the story happening in the background” diminished that feeling. In retrospect, it seems pretty obvious that Clevinger stretched out the last two story arcs (the Lefein dead end, taking over the city guard/mob, all the warriors and team switching, the big fake out, and, my least favorite, that weird Seinfeldian accomplishing-nothing-in-town right before the very end) for literally YEARS just to pull off a punchline 9 years in the making. However, I did like the major plot twist, the last “actual” strip, and even the epilogue.
On a related note, I highly recommend the author’s main baby, Atomic Robo, to everyone that exists.
On an unrelated note, two comics I’d like to see reviewed are “The Order of the Stick” and “Goblins: Life Through Their Eyes.” The former I feel was having a sucky current book until about a dozen strips ago. The latter I have very strong love and hate feelings for.
Ha, poor Sluggy. I was recommended it in 2003 and read about 4 years of back-comics, stuck with it for a few years then just gave up in disgust as it went schizo, from “zany and kooky” to “heavy, dramatic and emotional”.
What state is it in these days?
Well, currently it seems to be in the state of some kind of ninja frog woman trying to kill a one-eyed scientist man.
I don’t… I don’t read sluggy freelance, I’ll admit.
Good post bro. I read 2PStart! and felt the same way. Good, not great, but updated infrequently enough to not get in the way.
Hey, you took my suggestion, awesome! I thought it would be interesting to review a comic with a proper ending, I don’t know if it was for you, though. I generally agree with you, except that I don’t hate the art as much as you (I don’t know, it doesn’t anger me or anything… not that it’s great either). And I did think there was like, some five strips or so that were of exceeding quality.
Derp, I planned to link 1/0 when talking about webcomics ending, but I forgot. XP Also, none of the links are opening in a new window/tab. Gonna have to run this through my text editor to add the targets in the link tags.
@Kim
I like to leave the best for the ending. ;D
@Randy M.
Wait, I thought you were a joke commenter impersonating Randall… huh. Oh, wells: OotS is getting a spot in my “Best Gaming Comics” post, and then later I’ll see about reviewing it in big format. Goblings… I think AeKae was going to have a take on that.
Re:Sluggy
It’s a mess. It’s always a mess. It was less of a mess few months ago with the Minions arc, but now we’re back with Hereticorp and… well, it’s a bigger mess. I think I’m only following it out of lethargy by now.
@Guyman
I have this thing with this “thick line” style that I don’t really hate, but strip after strip it starts really getting on my nerves. Also, that goddamn Koopa Troopa face. What.
2P Start had good times, but I think most of them are near the end. Guess it’s better to quit while winning, after all!
GET OFF MY BACK RANDY!
I’ll be sending off the review to downtown tomorrow- I had *planned* to have the review out a week ago or so, but I haven’t had time to sit down and write out the review and reference it clearly-
this is mostly my fault for failing to realise how much the poop was going to hit the spinny thing in my workplace and scheduling properly.
please don’t think me a slacker ;_;
^^ the above post is meant tongue in cheek
I don’t really mean to be mean
2P start actually used to be one of my favourite comics, but I assume if you don’t like the art it can be quite off-putting (as someone who does some vector art himself I guess it’s far easier to appreciate it). I guess the main reasons I liked it were because it dealt with my kind of games, it was simple, and it felt made-for-the-web (1 panel per line, forcing you to scroll down and eliminating the chance of spoilers, as well as allowing more detailed panels).
Also, the site had a podcast, which really helped develop the characters (e.g. the Tim diving in a swimming pool full of money was based on a podcast in-joke), as well as explain the Lace comics (which I guess must’ve been pretty random and hard to understand otherwise). And one might not be able to comprehend Ray’s obsession with Sonic without listening to the podcast. That Ray getting married comic is hilarious in context.
The comic might have been just okay (although it seemed to be capable of at least making me smile almost every time), but the podcast was genius: short, hilarious, brilliant quality, fun segments, nice contrast between the 2 hosts, etc. It’s still my favourite podcast out there, and I’m glad they do a post-mortem one every once in a while.
@Spoon
Can’t blame you. I must be the only person who’s bothered by that (as I see) shoddy style. And of course, the schtick of gaming comics is to attract audience by catering to their interests. Just, as I have some pretension of being a critic, I avoid the GOOMH bait at all costs. But I reiterate: 2P Start is not BAD-bad. It’s just your usual gaming comic.
And I saw they have a podcast there, but 1)I don’t listen to podcasts; and 2)I’m a comic reviewer, I review comics based on the premise that they’re self-contained and depend on nothing else(except maybe some author commentary) to be fully appreciated.
That said, the Tim diving in a pool of money was amusing as it is, the Lace comics actually looked pretty cool(what with the pixelated backgrounds and all that), and Ray’s obsession with Sonic is quite understandable just by reading the comics itself. The marriage comic itself isn’t as ludicrous as I appear to make it(“NOT KIDDING FOLKS” caption non-withstanding), my only gripe with it is that they decided to make what was just a silly comic into a plot development out of the blue(“Miley” is never mentioned again between the marriage comic and the ending, at least not in the comic).
I guess I’ll have to pass on the podcast, anyway. Comics are my “business”, so to speak.
You aren’t the only person with a dislike of the vector art – I think it makes everything look stiff and lifeless.
Why was the choice limited to this and Nuklear Power? I can name at least five other webcomics with a proper ending, just off the top of my head: Bob and George, Ugly Hill, Exploitation Now, Krakow, and Marilith.
Those first two are particular old favourites of mine, I was sad to see those end.
@Sven
And how many of them are gaming comics? I think Bob and George barely qualifies as such. Besides, they were the suggestions I was given, it all boils down to this.
Professional Mole said:
“…..Just, as I have some pretension of being a critic, I avoid the GOOMH bait at all costs……”
Do you believe it is the role of the critic to ‘save’ the work from the author/artist?
@Mole: Okay, sorry, I didn’t know that the criteria was gaming comics. In which case I don’t think 8-Bit Theater really counts as a gaming comic either.
Yeah, this doesn’t look like a comic I would have much interest in reading.
But come on, Sluggy’s pretty cool. It’s had some rough patches, particularly that Oceans Unmoving period, but overall I think Pete has done a rather good job of crafting his world. The large variety of elements does pose a problem for new or sporadic readers, but the footnotes help circumvent that problem a little.
I think the past couple of weeks have really grounded current events too. We see the direction Hereticorp is going, there is a dovetail with Riff’s situation in sight, a few extraneous characters have been killed off, and the focus is quickly swivelling back to the Oasis mystery which is likely to be at the centre of the climax. It feels like the momentum is really picking back up. A few months ago the disparate plot threads seemed a lot more disjointed, so I very much disagree with the assertion that it’s in a bigger mess now than it was then.
@Aquarians
I never said that. Stop implying I said things I didn’t! What I said is that I avoid considering recognition chuckles as real laughter when evaluating comics.
@Sven
(And yes, guess Bob and George counts then… at least until Bob and George become the center of the plot).
It’s a straight-up parody of a game, I don’t think it can be more of a gaming comic than that.
@Doctorpuss
Well, I base my arguments in that a few months ago we had actual action going on, and now we have a lot of talking(that guy whose name I forgot’s mutiny nonwithstanding). I love Sluggy too, but any hope I had that any plots will be wrapped up is vanishing so quickly it’s not even funny to make comparisons with Lost.
2PSTART IS LEGENDARY, LEAVE IT BE AND GO READ YOUR CULTRAL REFERENCES COMICS WITH PORN,DRUGS, LAME HUMOR AND PLOTLESSNESS CRAP. YOU USE TO BE GOOD.
You read that guys? I used to be good! Two or three months ago, I suppose, since that’s when I even started writing in this blog.
Alright alright, just a joke >:(
But I see you railing on the Sonic Tails marriage thing but that actually had a plot behind it and whatnot and if you know Tim and Ray, you’d find it funny.
About the underdeveloped characters issue. I guess your right but the comics weren’t suppose to have a continous story and whatnot they were just suppose to be funny unrelated comics
And the final arc had some meaning behind it and stuff, I know you somewhat praised it. But there. Enjoy reading
“Alright alright, just a joke >:(”
Oh, the all-caps and clichés fooled me. I apologize.
“But I see you railing on the Sonic Tails marriage thing but that actually had a plot behind it and whatnot”
My biggest gripe was that it turned out to be a SERIOUS PLOT DEVELOPMENT. As a throwaway joke like every other, it was okay, but then I reached the end of the comic and was “wait, what, that was meant SERIOUSLY?” O_o
“the comics weren’t suppose to have a continous story and whatnot they were just suppose to be funny unrelated comics”
Which feature the same characters over and over again. Some development is just what I expect from these cases.
“But there. Enjoy reading”
And I did. Maybe not going to re-read it any soon, but it was a nice time.
“Oh, the all-caps and clichés fooled me. I apologize. ”
Tis fine I shouldn’t be shouting around the place and ruining the site.
And the fact that 2pstart didn’t fall into the general every joe-smo webcomic on the internet (using drugs and porn and whatnot to be funny) which I applaud them for and favor them more them others
“My biggest gripe was that it turned out to be a SERIOUS PLOT DEVELOPMENT. As a throwaway joke like every other, it was okay, but then I reached the end of the comic and was “wait, what, that was meant SERIOUSLY?” O_o ”
You have a good point, I didn’t see it as a big plot development- guess I wasn’t paying attention, I just found it funny.
” Which feature the same characters over and over again. Some development is just what I expect from these cases.”
Once again a good point- something that I didn’t consider at first.
Now I’ll take my leave and stop plaguing the good site you have here.
Think I’ll read some other articles to get a good view on things. Have a good day.
Hey, “Patajon Papelbon” was pretty funny.
ProMo,
Just saw this article and I’m really impressed with how in-depth your review of our comic is! While I was personally always a fan of Ray’s style, I can’t disagree with you on much of what you said. There was never any serious effort made to develop our characters in the comics (I actually rarely wanted to do Tim/Ray comics to be honest), but they became pretty popular with the podcast fanbase as they were real reflections of us in real life. For instance, I really did have a baby (no, Ray didn’t get married), and since that had an impact on my time with 2P START!, it made its way into the comics. We really did end the comic when life just got too hectic to continue our promised schedule (I’ve got 2 kids now). I’m glad you emphasized the value of giving the comic a proper ending, because as you point out, too often they just leave you hanging, as if they want to keep making comics, but they know they never will. We thought it best to end on a high note than let the schedule or quality slip.
Looking back on the comic myself, I sort of split it up into 3 categories:
1. News of the Week Comics – these are my least favorite now because they might have been amusing at the time, but they mean nothing now, sort of the classic Penny Arcade approach of commenting on the latest game or industry news. They are typically hard to like years after the fact.
2. Tim/Ray Comics – These would still mean something to a fan of the comic, but it was more of a journey you had to take with us in order to still have an appreciating for them. I look back on these with fondness because it brings back memories of working on the comic and podcast with Ray and interacting with fans. They are definitely of the inside-joke variety.
3. Stand-alone Comics – These you could look back on as an outsider and get without any context required (given you’re a gamer). These are my favorite because the best of them have both nostalgic value to me, and can be universally appreciated in the gaming world even years later. The internet favorites tend to be these comics for obvious reasons too (Heart Man especially), and these ones make me feel like there’s some lasting legacy to all that work we (mostly Ray) did.
I’m glad we found an audience making clean, family-friendly gaming webcomics, and I’m super-glad that Matt of BitF fame is carrying on the torch so well, he’s the best! We have put up a Post-Mortem #2 comic, which is actually a video (I think it’s great), and I hope there’s more to come, it’s just been a crazy year and things haven’t settled down enough yet to make 2P START! a priority.
Anyway, thanks again for the review. We were never so sensitive that we were hurt when someone didn’t fall in love with our comic (you don’t belong on the internet if you ARE that sensitive). We always just appreciated people taking the time to let us know what they thought, and you took more time in one sitting than anyone I know of, so thanks again!
From the bottom of my HeartMan,
Tim2P
Hey, thanks for the review. I appreciate you taking the time to read our work, and I’m glad you enjoyed the ending. None of our readers knew it was coming to a close at the time, so they were all very confused and quite frustrated at what was going on.
I’d still probably recommend you listen to a podcast sometime. The comics and podcasts were dancing partners.
CLEARLY you haven’t heard the EXCELLENT podcasts and the inside jokes brought into the comics that originated in them
I think 2P Start works best when you listen to the podcasts too. I would say most of the comics work by themselves but some are a reference to the podcasts (such as the Tweet the Deets comic) when you listen to the podcast you kind of sync up with the style of humor they have and why most of these jokes are good. I’m not saying you should listen to the podcasts before you review them but if you want the full flavor of the site it would be in your best interest to listen to a few. I know a lot of people would not want to listen to the whole archive (there are around 130 of them and they are about 30 minutes long each) but I for one am a die hard fan and I listen to multiple podcasts a night and reread the full archive every other week.
meh. i liked 2p start.
anyone wanna check out my webcomic. it sucks but hey, why not
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